A Sampling of Articles:
Payment Order
Paying Off A Loan With Credit Cards
Payment Order Counts When Saving Money On Your Debt
|
|
Chase Bank Tries to Pull a Fast One
Extending A Low Rate
Scott,
In the past year I left a considerably higher paying job for which I was in six years, to take a less stressful and ..... NOTE: The dialogue between Scott Bilker and the bank representatives is reprinted at the bottom of this article.
I knew it would happen! I read all the fine print. I reviewed every detail! I followed the instructions from Chase Bank exactly as they described in their low-rate-offer letter and they still penalized me!
How did Chase Bank attempt to trick me and maybe you' I strongly recommend that you read this entire article if you have ever done a balance transfer or you're thinking about doing a balance transfer!
It all started with one of the best credit offers I have ever received. A surprising 0% APR until February 1, 2003 with a one-time fee for each transfer of 4% of the amount transferred, up to a $50 maximum. According to the letter, "These checks may be used for any amount, up to your available credit line."
This offer was received in January which meant 13 months of 0% on my entire credit line of $12,500 (which is available) for a one-time fee of $50. That's a true APR of approximately 0.37%!
I wanted to take advantage of this offer for many reasons.
1) I wanted to see if what they promise in their letters is what they actually deliver when the bill arrives, and report the results to you, my dedicated readers.
2) My money market is getting 2.5% and the loan is costing 0.37%, so I'll be making about $250 over the course of the year for simply paying my bills on time.
3) This offer was slightly different than any transfer offer I've been interested in taking advantage of. It promised that I could use my entire credit line and implied that I can do this without penalty.
I checked and rechecked the letter for any loopholes. I read all the fine print, to be sure that I was using their transfer offer within all the rules described in the letter. Everything seemed to check out, so I went ahead and wrote myself a check for $12,500 and deposited it into my money market account.
When the bill arrived I noticed an overlimit fee of $29 assessed on my account--I KNEW IT! I had a feeling that they left out a few words in their letter that, of course, loophole their way to earning more money.
I followed the directions described in the letter which stated, in three places, that the check amount(s) cannot exceed my credit line and I was still charged an overlimit fee.
I've written about this type of "trick" in a previous article titled, Reading the Fine Print in Those Low Rate Credit Card Offers, however this case was slightly different. The credit offers I was referring to at that time stated in the body of the letter that you can use "any amount up to your available credit line." But in the fine print the letter warned, "You may transfer any amount, including transaction fees that are assessed, as long as it does not exceed the available credit line." Check out the Citibank offer I received that does this exactly.
The offer from Chase however, did not provide that warning. Every mention in the Chase letter about the amount you can use, the total "check amount(s)" is that it can go up to your available credit line.
Compared to the Chase offer, the Citibank offer tries to trick you in the body of the letter, but is at least honest in the fine print. In fact, the fine print in the Chase letter is even smaller than the fine print in the Citibank letter! As my editor Rick said, "It's as though Chase is trying to deceive people more than Citibank."
As soon as I saw that overlimit fee, and reviewed the original letter to make sure I didn't miss anything, I promptly called Chase Bank to have them remove the overlimit fee, which they did immediately.
When I asked why I was charged the overlimit fee, the rep told me it's because I was over the account limit since the $50 transfer charge plus the $12,500 check makes my balance $12,550.00. I explained that the Chase letter stated that I could write the check up to my limit and the rep (Ms. Beers) started arguing with me. I asked to speak to her supervisor (Mrs. Lett) and she also argued with me.
I originally thought they would just waive the fee and apologize for the confusion. I thought they would say something like, "Mr. Bilker, we're sorry that the wording of the letter was confusing. I can certainly understand how you feel. I will certainly bring this to the attention of my supervisors and management so we can review these details. Thank you so much for calling!" Then they could have hung up and forgot about my call--but that didn't happen.
Below are links to portions of the conversation I had with Chase customer service.
Part 1: First rep removes the overlimit fee and argues about the fee.
Part 2: Supervisor argues about the fee.
It may be true that they said I could use the check(s) up to my credit limit. And it may be true that the agreement says that if I go over my limit I have to pay a fee. One could argue that if they told me to write the check(s) up to twice my credit limit, and I did, that I should be charged an overlimit fee because it goes over my limit. The letter could have said to jump off a bridge and if I do it's my stupidity. However it is certainly implied that if they're sending me a letter, and I follow the directions in their letter, I will not be penalized.
It's clearly stated that if you write a transfer check there's going to be a fee. However, their letter never said that if you write the check to the account limit an overlimit fee will be charged.
Refinancing Secrets Uncovered
First off, to find out more about my loan analyzing services, simply send me an email with your phone number and the best time to call (click here to send email or call (609) .....
This encourages people to write the check up to the maximum limit. Chase never mentioned anywhere in the letter, not even in the fine print, that there would be an overlimit fee if you do as they say and write the check up to the limit.
One good analogy is to imagine a policeman telling me I can go through a stop sign. He says, "Scott, go through the stop sign." So I go through the sign and the same policeman immediately pulls me over and gives me a ticket. I say, "But you told me I could go through the stop sign." And he replies, "It's common knowledge that it's illegal to go through the stop sign. Didn't you read the driving handbook'"
Chase Bank, the policeman of their terms, said to "write the check to the limit" then when I did they penalized me, and probably countless others, who may not have even seen the overlimit charge on their statement. Or maybe they did see the charge, then called and were told they were stupid for going over their limit. It brings to light the fact that you cannot trust what their letters say.
The bottom line in this situation is that the letter is very deceptive. It leads people to believe that they can write the checks up to the credit limit without penalty.
When I called Chase I didn't have to ask to have that overlimit fee waived. As soon as I mentioned that it was on my statement the rep removed it instantly! If they really believed that I was completely at fault they may not have done this so quickly. Also, the rep and supervisor seemed well versed in arguing their points and my guess is that it's because they have had practice or training on the topic.
How many of you have had this, or a similar problem' Especially if it was from this very same low-rate credit offer by Chase bank. Let me know if this has happened to you, and please, let me know if you agree or disagree with my position on this issue by filling out the response form.
Lastly, aside from this situation, my past experiences with Chase have been very good. They have always offered me nice lending deals. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I would hope that this particular situation occurred only because of these specific reps. I would hope that Chase reviews EVERY person's account that took advantage of this offer to be sure that they are not penalized--without that person having to call them first!
Part 1: First Rep removes the overlimit fee and argues about the fee.
Rep: "Card member services. This is Ms. Beers, how may I help you'"
Scott: "Hi, what was your name again'"
Rep: "Ms. Beers. How can I help you today'"
Scott: "Alright. Well I've got a question about my account."
Rep: "Okay, let me have your name."
Scott: "Scott Bilker."
Rep: "Okay Mr. Bilker, how can I help you today'"
Scott: "Okay, umm, why do I have this overlimit fee'"
Rep: "Because you are over your limit."
Scott: "Okay. How did that happen'"
Rep: "You did a balance transfer for $12,500."
Scott: "Yeah."
Rep: "Also there is a balance transfer fee of $50."
Scott: "Umm hmm."
Rep: "And that took you over your credit line. Your credit line is only $12,500."
Scott: "Right. Okay well, you see I think that's an error because I have the letter from Chase. You know I used one of these balance transfer checks Ms. Beers. It says these checks maybe used for any amount up to your available credit line. What was my available credit line before I wrote that check'"
Rep: "Up to. Your credit line is only $12,500 sir."
Scott: "Yes, but these checks may be used for any amount up to your available credit line. My available credit line was $12,500, I wrote the check for $12,500."
Rep: "That's the credit line sir, and of course you know you are going to go over your credit line. You can't take it all off of there, you've got to leave something there for the fee..."
Scott: "Uh, listen..."
Rep: "Also for the finance charge. I did give you back the $29 overlimit fee."
Tricky Insurance Pays Off
Scott,
I found out after renewing a credit card that I had been paying for insurance that I wasn't aware of. This insurance ..... NOTE: Notice how she removed the charge without me even asking!
Scott: "Okay."
Rep: "It's already been deleted. But you should have left a little room there for finance charges and also for the fee."
NOTE: She keeps blaming me for following the directions in the letter!
Scott: "Don't you think the letter should say 'You should leave a little room there. You shouldn't write the checks up to your credit limit, maybe up to your credit limit minus the fee.'"
Rep: "Okay, but the fees are in the letter also."
Scott: "Yes, but it says these checks may be used for any amount up to your credit line. Doesn't that give you the impression that you can write the check, well, up to your available credit line'" (Pause) "Hello'"
Rep: "Sir, it's in the letter. Okay, again you used your whole credit line, of course you are going to go over your credit line if..."
Scott: "I know, but I am just concerned about the wording. I mean, if it said..."
Rep: "Mr. Bilker, if you weren't sure about how much you should use on the checks you can always call us, 24 hours."
NOTE: No need to call because the letter said I can write the check up to the limit.
Scott: "Right. Well it was very clear, I mean it said up to the credit line. I know you removed it and I appreciate that, but I just want a little clarification of the writing there. Because, you know, I don't know what to believe anymore. I mean, it said..."
Rep: "Sir, you wouldn't take your whole credit line. If you know your credit line is $12,500 and you go over that, and you take that whole amount it is going to go over."
Scott: "It doesn't..."
Rep: "You can go 'up to,' and you should never take the whole credit line because, yes, you will go over and receive the $29 fee on that."
Scott: "I just don't see where it says that. Like even in the fine print here it says 'balance transfer check amounts may not exceed your available credit line. It doesn't say valid balance transfer check amounts and charges may not exceed. It says the check amounts."
Rep: "It told you not to exceed the whole credit line Mr. Bilker."
Scott: "Well, no. It says the check amounts, the check amounts, not the..."
Rep: "You go over the $12,500..."
Scott: "I didn't. I wrote it for $12,500."
Rep: "Well, it's $12,500, you took your whole credit line. That's going to take you over the credit line."
Early Payoff
Scott,
I would like to pay off my 80K-15 year, 7.74% mortgage in 8-10 years' How much per month or .....
Scott: "But it said I can use up to my available credit line."
Rep: "It says 'up to,' sir, it doesn't say take the whole $12,500."
NOTE: Talk about double-talk!
Scott: "Up to means... Well you know what, I know you waived the fee and that's great, but I'd like to talk to a supervisor about this."
Rep: "Not a problem, hold on."
Scott: "Thank you."
Part 2: Supervisor argues about the fee
Rep: "Mr. Bilker thank you for holding the account supervisor Ms. Lett is on the line. You may go ahead."
Scott: "Thank you Ms. Beers."
Rep: "Mr. Bilker this is Ms. Lett, how may I help you'"
Scott: "Hi. Well umm, I called because I used a balance transfer offer from Chase and umm, I got charged an overlimit fee. Although Ms. Beers did waive that overlimit fee."
Rep: "Umm hmm."
Scott: "But I'm just a little confused because the letter specifically states that I can use my checks up to my available credit, and that's exactly what I did. I followed the directions exactly, but yet I was charged an overlimit fee."
Rep: "Okay. You can use the checks up to that, but with each check written there is a fee."
Scott: "Uh huh."
Rep: "So according to the amount you write, you include the fee."
Scott: "It doesn't say what you just said."
Rep: "It doesn't have to say it, it's telling you that there is a fee involved."
Scott: "Yeah, but it says, let me just read this really clearly, it says, 'These checks may be used for any amount up to your available credit line.' In fact it says, at the bottom in the fine print, 'balance transfer check amounts may not exceed your available credit line.' Check amounts, it doesn't say check amounts and fees."
Rep: "Right, the check amount cannot exceed your available credit line. However, it also goes on to say, 'With each check processed there will be a transaction fee.' So included with the check amount there is a transaction fee that you have to include. If you are going to write three checks, you write three checks that are going to be up to whatever your credit limit is. But in those three checks, remember, there are three fees. So its just common knowledge."
NOTE: Step one of their defense it to insult the customer. Don't you just LOVE these people. Way to treat your valued customers who don't have common knowledge.
Scott: "Common knowledge' Well, even on the fine print on the back it says balance transfer check amounts... This is right after the fees, it says, 'You will be charged a balance transfer transaction fee,' and it gives the amount, and afterwards it says, 'Balance transfer check amounts may not exceed your available credit line.' It does not say balance transfer check amounts and fees."
Rep: "It doesn't have to. It's explained and it's outlined for you. If you know your credit line is $12,500 dollars, and they tell you that you are going to be charged a fee. And you write a check for $12,500 dollars, plus the $50 fee, you are now over the $12,500, because that is all that your credit limit is."
Scott: "But it just doesn't clearly say that. How could this be common knowledge' That's my confusion. It says, the directions..."
Rep: "Because if we tell you that you are going to be charged a $50 dollar fee. If you write a check for $12,500 and we have told you that we are going to charge you a $50 fee, $12,500 plus $50, is $12,500 and $50. Which means you are now over your credit limit. That's what I mean by common knowledge. It's simple math."
Scott: "Well how come that common knowledge isn't included in the statement' See, the statement clearly says these checks maybe used for any amount up to your available credit line. Common knowledge tells me that..."
Rep: "Well okay..."
Scott: "That I can use it up to my credit line. It doesn't say, not up to my credit line, it says up to my credit line."
Rep: "And when you use that check you're charged a fee."
Scott: "Yes, but it doesn't say..."
Rep: "Well, that's included with the amount of the check."
NOTE: The fee is not "included with the check" it's a separate charge.
Providian Raised My APR To 29.99%
Scott,
I was shocked to learn my Providian credit card raised my APR from 23.99 to 29.99. I've never missed a payment or been late. I called to find out ..... Scott: "Well, shouldn't it say not up to your available credit line, or close to your available credit line' Wouldn't that be a little more clear'"
Rep: "I guess it's the way you interpret it."
....
Rep: "It is your interpretation Mr. Bilker. Unfortunately, you did not read the entire thing, or did not understand it."
NOTE: Still blaming me for their deceptive wording. I wish I had that Citibank letter handy when I called so I could have asked Mrs. Lett to explain why Citibank clearly explains to keep the total of the fees and transfers under the available limit.
Scott: "Where in this thing does it tell me I cannot write these checks up to my available credit line'"
Rep: "It doesn't tell you that you can't. We can't tell you what you cannot do."
Scott: "Listen, it says...'These checks may be used for any amount, up to your available credit line.' It doesn't say these checks and fees. These checks may be used for any amount. And listen, again, at the bottom, balance transfer check amounts, it doesn't say balance transfer and fees, just balance transfer check amounts, may not exceed your available credit line."
Rep: "It doesn't have to say 'and fees' because the fee is already included with the amount that you write."
Scott: "Hmm, really it sounds like some kind of trickery to me."
Rep: "And again that depends on your interpretation."
Scott: "Hmm, I wonder what a legal interpretation might be' Like disclosure interpretation."
Rep: "We have a lot... Everything we submit goes through a legal ramification before it is ever sent to you. So, obviously it must be legal. This is a major bank. And they have a lot of lawyers..."
....
Rep: "When it says to me that if I write a check up to my limit and I am going to be including a fee, and I know that my limit is a certain amount. If I'm going to be charged a fee, I know already that I'm going to go over my limit. If my limit is $10,000 I'm going to be charged $50, I know my limit is $10,000 and my balance is going to be $10,050. I already know that."
Scott: "So, all those extra words you just told me should basically be included in this letter'"
Rep: "There is nothing extra that I told you. I added it."
....
Rep: "If you can add, then you don't have a problem with that."
NOTE: The blame-the-customer-defense continues, now I can't add.
....
Scott: "But it does not tell me, if you write the check up to your limit, then you will go over you limit. You cannot write your..."
Rep: "It doesn't have to."
Scott: "It doesn't have to! How do you..."
Rep: "We give you your credit limit, if we tell you that your credit limit is $12,500. We tell you that you have $12,500 that you have $12,500 to use, you can do whatever you want with it. You can write this check if you want, but when you write this check there will be a 4 percent transaction fee with a maximum charge of $50. Now if you sit down and write a check for $12,500 and know you are going to be charged $50 you have now gone over your limit. If you add the amount that you wrote your check for, plus the $50 fee that you are going to be charged, you are now above $12,500."
....
Scott: "Well, I think that they ought to change the wording here because it's really confusing people."
Rep: "Well Mr. Bilker you can write in and tell the bank that you want them to change the wording."
Scott: "They should definitely change the wording. I think this is quite confusing, since when you say, 'You can write your checks up to your credit limit,' and you do that, it doesn't anywhere, anywhere in this letter, say that if you write your checks up to your credit limit you will go over. Is that true that statement'... it doesn't say anywhere that if you do that, you will go over your limit because of the fees. I think that should be in there that would make it quite clear. Don't you agree Ms. Let'"
Rep: "I don't agree with you."
Scott: "Okay. I just don't understand how you can't see it."
Rep: "Well, you see it your way and I see it my way. We can look at the same thing and see two different things and I guess that's just the point where we are."
Scott: "You're seeing a lot of extra words that don't exist in the letter."
Rep: "No, I'm just seeing that if I add how much I wrote a check for and add the fee that the bank is charging me I have now gone over my credit limit. That's all I did."
....
Scott: "Well you see, communication is the responsibility of the communicator. And this wasn't communicated very well."
Rep: "Well, I am very sorry that you feel that way. But that is the way that the bank sends their information. They do advise you of any fees up front."
....
Scott: "When I have my credit card, my physical card, and my limit is $12,500, and I go into a store how much can I spend' How much'"
Rep: "If you pay your balances in full, $12,500."
....
Scott: "So you're telling me that Chase tells me that I can use my credit card up to the limit, right'"
Rep: "The credit card, yes."
....
Scott: "So, in that case up to the limit means up to the limit. But in this case (the credit offer in the letter) up to the limit means not up to the limit. Even though the words are the same, you're telling me that when they say up to the limit then..."
Rep: "The words are the same, however, it says up to the limit. These says up to the limit including with a fee."
Scott: "No."
Rep: "Yes it does."
Scott: "No, you said it."
Rep: "You're going wrong."
Scott: "No, that's where you are going wrong. You said to me, just a second ago, up to the limit including the fee..."
Rep: "Okay, and again it's your interpretation. I cannot continue this."
Rep: "Thank you for calling customer service."
Scott: "Bye, bye."
Rep: "Bye, bye."
About The Author
Scott Bilker is the author of the best-selling books, "Talk Your Way Out of Credit Card Debt",
"Credit Card and Debt Management", and "How to be more Credit Card and Debt Smart".
He is also the Editor and publisher of the FREE DebtSmartŪ E-mail Newsletter
(http://www.debtsmart.com). Sign up today!
|
|
|
